Black Moon and Liliths Dark Side

Investigations into the Mythology of Lilith seems to reveal a dark figure of a tormented woman indeed. The Black Moon Lilith in Astrology in my view focuses on the dark or unconscious side of Lilith in personality. The traditional Lilith mythology is varied and complex, it incorporates the darker side of the female psyche and the sexualization of unbound, non integrated impulses. Perhaps in a complex way, descriptions of the Black Moon Lilith (BML) are the denied emotional aspects of Lilith’s tormented personality.

The Dark Moon is different to the Black Moom Lilith

The Dark Moon describes our relationship to the absolute, to sacrifice as such, and shows how we let go. In transit, the Dark Moon indicates some form of castration or frustration, frequently in the areas of desire, a powerlessness of the psyche, or a general inhibition. On the other hand, it shows where we question ourselves, our lives, our jobs, and our beliefs. I feel this is important, since it gives us the opportunity to “let go” of something. The Dark Moon shows where we can let the Whole flow into our selves, without putting an “I” in the way, without putting up a wall in the form of ego. (Joëlle de Gravelaine in “Lilith und das Loslassen”, Astrologie Heute Nr. 23)

Although the BML and descriptions about Lilith Mythology are not completely synonomous there are however parallels which deserve identifying and differentiating from the biblical notion of Lilith. I have firstly compiled a list of comments and edits from researched articles about the mythology of Lilith. If you are interested click below. I will then go on to discuss the astrological Black Moon Lilith with some interesting case studies and charts.

Biblical Lilith

Lillith is found in the Inanna (Sumerian goddess) story “The Hallupu
Tree” found in the book “Inanna, Queen of heaven and Earth: Her Stories
and Hymns from Sumer” By Diane Wolkstein, and Samuel Noah Kraemer,
published by Harper and Row Publishers 1983. Here Lillith is seen as
“the dark maid” who “built her home in the trunk& of Inanna’s Hallupu
tree. When Inanna’s brother, Gilgamesh (according to this story) drove
Lillith out of the tree she “fled to the wild, uninhabited places.”
The word “lillith” means demon-wind, which could either be a dust devil,
or an all-out hurricane at the time the clay tablet was written, around
2000 BC if not earlier.

Lilith being called unfaithfull, a “whore” etc. comes from the
traditional jewish legend writing Haggadah (2nd cent bc)
that says that the first wife of Adam was made of the same earth

Please go to the above highlighted link to read the rest of the edited comentaries on Biblical Lilith and find other links to Astrological Lilith.

Astrological Liliths

The Asteroid, Lilith 1181 has been incorporated into Astrology along with the main Asteroids such as Ceres, Pallas, Vesta, Juno, Athena and Chiron. These are all important archetypal points in the astrology chart which tend to represent a more spiritual interplay within the psyche. There are many Goddess Asteroids which I believe represent the feminine and evovling intuitive dimensions of the personality. The Asteroids seem to opperate on a “higher level” of consciousness compared to the planets, by offerring a wealth of mythological stories. One can identify with specific traits in ones personality much like the Planets however with greater sensitivity, soul and spirit. The archetype of Lilith and Asteroid 1181 refers to the “other woman”, the temptrest, the femme fatale. The Asteroid Lilith archetype is quite obvious and straight forward in its sexual representation in the astrology chart.

Dark Moon Lilith is apparently a second Moon to the Earth which does not reflect light from the sun. It is a dark moon. Early astronomers reported sighting the moon in 1898 however there is some controversy about it’s orbit. History

It is in this historical context that the astrologer W. GornOld, who published under the name Sepharial, announced to astrologers the existence of a newly discovered moon of the Earth that he called Lilith. The announcement appeared in his The Science of Foreknowledge published in 1918, but the discovery itself had been made (and announced in astronomical circles) by the amateur astronomer Dr. Georg Waltenmath in Hamburg, in 1898. Waltenmath had found anomalous observations, scattered throughout records dating from 1618 to his own day that suggested the existence of a body orbiting earth in a very stable and predictable orbit. Astronomers had failed to discover the body, according to Waltenmath, because it was not highly reflective and could only be seen when transiting the disk of the sun, or rarely at its geocentric opposition with the sun when its full face could sometimes be seen as a reddish glow. Waltenmath predicted the dates and times of several more transits of the body across the sun’s disk, and claimed to have confirmed these predictions by his own direct observations and those of witnesses. In fact, on February 4, 1898, he claimed that he and 11 witnesses had seen the newly discovered moon crossing the sun’s disk. Unfortunately for Waltenmath, professional astronomers observing the sun at precisely the time that his witnesses had made their observations saw nothing of the sort. Waltenmath continued to make bold announcements concerning this and other “new moons,” but astronomers ignored his claims, and he became widely known as a crank. This, of course, did not stop Sepharial. Although the observations of the new moon were thoroughly discredited by astronomers of the day, he included an ephemeris based on Waltenmath’s research, named it Lilith, and made tentative delineations of the body. He was rather circumspect in his explanation of how he had arrived at the name, although he seems to have been guided by the pseudo-historical musings of Blavatsky’s The Secret Doctrine. Sepharial was one of Blavatsky’s “inner group” of Theosophical initiates, though he had left the group by the time The Science of Foreknowledge was written. Quoted from Frater Rikb

Its the Moon that is there but not there and was appropriately named the Dark Moon Lilith. I for one do not use the Dark Moon Lilith in the astrology chart however the descriptions in her use could be summed up by Catt Foy;

“Lilith’s placement in the chart is especially important to women, and represents the power of the original woman. In a man’s chart, Lilith’s placement will reveal the hidden power struggles or other issues he may have, resolved or unresolved, with the women in his life.”

All three Astrological Liliths seem to refer to the traditional Mythology of Lilith and therefore have brought confusion to the separate forms of Lilith the Asteroid, Dark Moon Lilith and the Black Moon Lilith.

It is the Black Moon Lilith that I am interested in, as here we have a calculated astrological point called “the empty focus moon” which I believe refers to the darker and unconscious side of the Lilith archetype. In my interpretation of the “dark side” and unlike the Star Wars movies it doesn’t mean the evil side of the force, however an unconscious or unaware side of the force. The Black Moon Lilith seems to emerge from ones unconscious world, the hidden elements of ones feeling world, literally emerging from the psyche like a gust of wind perhaps. This could mean a ‘wind’ of anger, lust, guilt, or other feelings (in relation to the Lilith archetype) which may just come out by themselves. Perhaps the BML represents a form of Kundalini in a developed, higher evolutionary form of Lilith awareness?

Perhaps these lilith feelings are antithetical to ones normal and expressive (lunar moon) nature and they may feel somewhat dark. Lilith’s biblical and archetypal meanings also refer to the Black Moon however I find that reading in between the lines becomes necessary to gain an understanding Liliths complex dark side. The Black Moon Lilith is more than the literal representations according to Lilith myths. Imagine becoming inspired to investigate the idea of hidden unconscious forces; senses and impulses underlaying descriptions of Lilith.

Although these type of feelings initially seem like repressed feelings or ‘forces’, one soon learns that Lilith (BML) has an executive capability in the psyche. Lilith emerges to the surface by direct and reactive conduit. She can assume power within the system and like a tornado she wreaks her force and then dissipates. Perhaps the experience of the Lilith’s Dark Side emerging leaves much to process and evaluate for the person open to seeing that sort of thing.

One can only hope to form a working relationship with Black Moon Lilith in the psyche, as bumpy a ride as that might be. She gets to express herself without too much chaos and destruction and the rational-aware side of ones personality, listens to a dimension of themselves which provides greater awareness and evolutionary potential.

This is where my linking of Counter Transference and the Black Moon Lilith function in the chart comes into play.

People we know with prominent Liliths

Moon conjunct Black Moon Lilith;

Jamie lee Curtis, Ted Bundy, Chris Evert, Hermann Goering, Janis Joplin, myself, Burt Reynolds, Bon Scott, Warren Beatty, Schapelle Corby, Federrer the tennis player.

Ascendant and Black Moon Lilith

Julie Andrews, Rutgard Hauer, L Ron Hubbard, Stephan Sondheim, Michael Stich, Pablo Picasso,

Venus and Black Moon Lilith ;

Billy Graham, Goldie Hawn, Adolf Hitler, Brian Burke, Jack Nicklaus.

More on a Black Moon Lilith Case study soon.


28 Responses to “Black Moon and Liliths Dark Side”

  1. 1 roses April 14, 2008 at 14:08

    That helped me understand your comment more. Gosh this stuff is interesting! Well, i may not have a bml in ‘moon, ascendant or venus’ or how ever it’s said, but i can so relate to what you’ve said.

    K, bml would be a part of everyone whether we see it or not wouldn’t it?


  2. 2 kingsley April 14, 2008 at 15:23

    Yes Roses, BML has been in my chart for all my life however its only until recent years that I have investigated its significance in relation to my “whole” with any seriousness. Thats the good thing with learning about the psyche Roses; there is always something to grapple with, to bring to the fore and then incorporate into the evolutionary self.

    One could say that some people are inexplicably driven to understand aspects of themself and others just plod along with out a care to how or what Lilith (or anything else) might mean for them.


  3. 3 roses April 15, 2008 at 12:12

    Creedence Clear Water Revival – A bad moon rising.


  4. 4 Kim September 6, 2008 at 06:33

    How do I interpret a natal black moon in the 8th house having a black moon conjunction transit in Sagitarrius? My natal moon is in the 8th house too, in 0degrees capricorn.

  5. 5 kingsley September 7, 2008 at 15:27

    I am not sure how to give you an interpretation on this one Kim without seeing the the details. Lilith in the 8th transiting your natal lilith is I think what you are saying. Depends if Your natal moon is conjunct, that would say something otherwise the intensity of Lilith just from her 8th house location invites the usual 8th house descriptions.

    Perhaps with both Moon and BML in the 8th there is a lighter and darker side to a secretive emotional life where in one way lilith becomes gust of “death” a little death such as embarassement or an orgasm. But I cant really tell, maybe Moon is more in the ninth than the eighth?


  6. 6 MaryEllen Marshall October 10, 2008 at 02:26

    O.J. Simpson & Britney Spears both have their Sun conjunct BMLilith.

    troubled & charismatic personalities, to say the least

    love all-ways,

  7. 7 kingsley October 10, 2008 at 08:41

    Good to hear from you MaryEllen, I was aware of OJ’s lilith but not Britney. Makes sense doesnt it. OJ’s “get a way with it” Lilithdidnt work this time and Britney is back from the brink. I am sure that her Lilith prefers the better kind of limelight however she just needed to hit the blackest kind of experience to know that.

    Have you got a blog mem?


  8. 8 SteamyWeenie October 14, 2008 at 01:21

    at the moment BML is in transit through my 8th house..

    my natal saturn and uranus are there in sagittarius, which oppose my part of fortune in gemini and they semisquare my Pluto in Scorpio 6th house (Libra)

    if anybody has clues as to what this is please explain… BUT

    im waaaaaay more interested in BML’s position in my natal chart..

    BML conjuncts my Sun and Ketu (SN) in the 5th house (Virgo)
    all 3 trine my ascendant

    BML trines my Neptune(Rx) in 9th (Capricorn) and opposes Rahu (NN) in 11th (Pisces)
    and sextiles my Scorpio Pluto in 6th (Libra)

    the conjunction people…
    what’s it all about?

  9. 9 kingsley October 14, 2008 at 07:32

    Hello Steamy Weenie, good to see you visiting here. That sure is a mouthful – BML Sun and Ketu. I think maybe pages could be written about that lot. One could say that BML represents a kind of appeal you give off, like an aura. Perhaps it is a glint in the eye or the way you express your playfulness (5th house) that can be attractive to others. Whether this “power” gets you the kind of result you are looking for, or alternatively leads you down a road that always ends up the same will depend on how you deal with Sun – Ketu.

    Perhaps you are like your father in some way Steamie, or the issues in your life surrounding him will involve Lilith expressed in your personality in a 5th house way.

    Hope that is helpful Steamy Weanie. If you need more, I am always up for reading around your Lilith. Just give me a message.


  10. 10 SteamyWeenie October 21, 2008 at 23:56

    you are totally a life saver! : )

    here I was thinking that this bml was trying to kill any 5th house activity I engage in..
    but I guess ketu has already taken over that job huh? lol

    im sure i’ll find more and more things that make me wonder about this lovely 5th BML.. when I do, guess who im coming to for advice..

    just guess!

    YOU!!!! : p

  11. 11 kingsley October 23, 2008 at 05:41

    Thanks for that Steamy Weany, ketu doesnt necessarily have to take over however it might be bringing to light how the patterns work in that area of you chart. Thats not a bad thing in my mind. Killing off is a little extreme in language however I do know what you mean. In my mind it becomes a prioritory to understand Lilith or ones life patterns andchange what one can. Perhaps developing a “working relationship to them” – creating positive outcomes, being creative with Lilith-Ketu is also a very good direction to take.


  12. 12 Punarvasu February 22, 2009 at 20:44

    Dear Kingsley,

    I know this is an old thread, but I found it very interesting! Thank you for all the information on BML. I am also especially interested in this point partly since it’s quite prominent in my chart. I have BML 27’13 cancer conjunct my natal sun (1’13 leo), my venus (23’4 cancer) and my sun/moon midpoint (24’9 cancer). All fall in my 8th house (which ALL my personal planets fall in). Also one of the reasons I’d like to know more about this point is because it seems to play an important role in my relationships with men as well, possibly because of the concentration of such important points/planets in such a small part of my chart which makes it a very sensitive point? Also my moon and vertex (19’4 cancer) fall close to this cluster of points/planets. I was wondering if you could maybe give me some more clues or insight about this?

    Thanks so much in advance!

  13. 13 kingsley February 22, 2009 at 21:29

    Thank you for your interest Punarvasu. Perhaps the out of sign conjunction with the Sun helps reduce Liliths voracity here. Usually Lilith is most potent when it is partile. That is in the same degree. Not withstanding the busy activity going on in your eighth house of transformations – Lilith also has a hand in transformations as long as we can scrape some awareness together. Venus and Lilith is not such a bad combination and in Cancer, Venus is in its Triplicity.

    You may have a way of working in relationships that is alluring to others. Others may identify a certain charm or feature about you that is exciting. Maybe Lilith also works by representing something familiar in the other persons life.

    Venus and Lilith can use the attachments in relationships, that is to develop stronger attachments or to lessen the attachment for some perceived gain in the relationship.

    Lilith is the transference theory where there is identifying with the “familiar” (or family). One can be immediately attracted to such a person. There are hidden physical and emotional connections to the lilith person. In the 8th house and sign of Cancer there is much tossing and turning. If we are “coming-ready or not” for our transformations via Lilith – that is great however at other times it is appropriate to avoid or be in denial of Lilith process until we really must. “Not knowing Lilith” here can determine aspects of our fate. Especially in teenage years.

    Lilith is a darker side of personality that is least intergrated because that is the way she likes it. “She” takes some getting to know – to tease her out – respectfully and “listening” for her thoughts, behaviours and feelings. Lilith really needs to be acknowledged in self but she goes about that process in seemingly self defeating ways.


  14. 14 Punarvasu February 22, 2009 at 22:55

    Wow! Thank you so much for this quick and informative reply! I found indeed that there seem to be instant and profound connections between people whenever BML comes into play, that seem to have some fated quality to it. I’ve also experienced them, already since my teenage years. Usually there comes a lot of fear with it, as if mainly the lilith person gets under the skin of the other person, evoking some deep but somewhat hidden feelings. It can create a strong mutual attraction, but if not handeled correctly it can be a bumpy ride. For instance if both people are still ‘unaware’ of their BML side. Or if one of the two is not ready to face the darker or more hidden aspects of their nature that person usually turns away. At least that is what i’ve seen happening so far. How would you interpret it if one person has it’s sun/moon midpoint in exact conjunction the other persons BML? or BML square another persons sun, moon or venus?

    Thank you!

  15. 15 kingsley February 23, 2009 at 08:14

    The Sun Moon midpoint is about relationships and if the midpoint is exact in synastry then one party would be more inclined to want something from the relationship and if Lilith disapears so does the relationship.

    In synastry look for angular connections or exact planetary connections to Lilith.

    I knew a client with Lilith exact my Lilith and Moon. Her Lilith was placed strongly on her descendant. Which means – so was my moon and lilith.

    The type of Relational Psychotherapy we engaged in, involved countertransference. Our ‘counselling relationship’ involved connecting in our unique way and this allowed healing on her part and transformations in myself as a result.

    It is possible to integrate Lilith into personality rather than let her act out. It takes many years of personal work and in environments where lilith can be expressed openly without judgement .


  16. 16 Eva Gson April 15, 2009 at 20:17

    Hi Mr Kingsley!

    I hae since some time, compared my families BML, and many of us has some connecting BMLs with inner planets, and how can I correlate to my own, which is in a conj to my own South Node, not exact, but very close to. And my yougenst sons Sun is eact.
    Would be happy to have an answer.
    On how you express this BML in my 9th house, closely to my SN. Also where son has his Sun.
    Happy smile from Sweden.

  17. 17 kingsley April 15, 2009 at 22:30

    Hello Ms Eva

    Family charts are very interesting when they show strong connections to each other. Family traits usually have a theme to them both in psychology and Astrlogy. Each new generation may establish their own variation of character patterns as their parents before them. Some families or cultures adhere strictly to their traditional beliefs and behaviours which is also a kind of patterning to character.

    The South Node and BML is describing an aspect of your own personality development. The South Node can be an unconscious process that plays out in life. A kind of scripting of ones character. The past and issues that may have played a role in your personality development are influenced by black moon lilith.

    That could mean a couple of things Eva. 1.Repressing parts of yourself (cultural heritage or patterning)that you consider innapropriate. 2. When unconscious aspects of the psyche emerge it can be a way of coping with life. A defense mechanism working to protect you from what you dont know about yourself yet.

    Its in your background to maintain control in some way Eva. I would doubt with all that Libra that you like getting getting too agressive. However you will find ways to control your environment and express yourself powerfully. You think alot and use words and language to great affect.

    Lilith in the ninth may represent boundary concerns when perhaps you are not sure if you go over the top? It could also be certain philosophies contained within your family/cultural heritage that are expressed strongly by you – even if you detest some of those cultural traditions.

    It simply means that you have a strong personality Eva. You are an interesting person indeed.


  18. 18 Eva April 16, 2009 at 01:56

    Great thanks Kingsley:-)
    I have since a year or so, gotten interested deeper into some of those asteroids or points a s the BML havent thought so much about for a while, and now last week with a fullmoon at my sun all took a new diving into… the points wich I havent seen as so important before in astrology. Since I think having a close SN could be soemthing to check out some, I found your siate and here is a lot of interesting stuff to read of BML. I have been interested in astrology since around 35 yrs or something, and going deeper is giving a lot of psychological understanding and evolving inner things. I think, can we carry karmic things and BML also point towards those old things we can carrie from former lives, or dont you think we live more than one? 🙂 I wonder if the closeness BML-SN can say some of this and that that is somethings I then should leave behind me? As NN is the point where we should develop more in this life here now? Ive done a lot of alternative things in life, f.ex rebirthing breathing, as it goes deep and you connect with things at a very deep level and can release old stuff in those sessions. I am a Libra 😉 yes, and today as reading your site, I checkad and found Lilith (asteroid 1181) between my natal Neptune-Jupiter conj in Scorpio, and that finding got me a smile…cause yes, spiritual things have benn a drive since manymany yrs. Sorry of all those bad spellings earlier, I was in a hurry. Great thanks again, for answering me.

  19. 19 kingsley April 16, 2009 at 07:59

    Whether karmic or psychological it can mean the same thing Eva. Without the south node we would not be propelled to move toward the North Node. It is more about integrating – accepting and being aware of the south node. We do tend to fall in the same old traps in life because of the same old ways of handling things. That is the south node for you.


  20. 20 Eva April 17, 2009 at 14:23

    …until we choose to act differently, or?
    *smiles* One ca try out experiencebased alternative therapies to come to terms with what Lilith is trying to tell us about our selves. To connect to those hidden issues, and starting to act instead of react..maybee?

  21. 21 kingsley April 17, 2009 at 15:13

    Yes Eva, Lilithh tends to be an area involving therapeutic interventions of some kind. Acting instead or reacting is a typical behavioural adjustment in some therapies Eva however with regards to Black Moon Lilith one needs to find a way to express lilith safely so that “her needs” can be identified then integrated over time.

    Developing a strong reflective and self awareness process is the key. To be “comfortable” with reacting and then reflecting on these unconscious parts of ourselves – with the goal to accept Lilith within.

    I think the best way to work with Black Moon Lilith is in groups where Relational Therapy is the key process. In that way one can indentify “her” through interactions with others. Relational therapy involves working in the Intersubjective Unconscious space between two or more people. It is in that space in which my understanding of Black Moon Lilith can be best worked with. Otherwise some other Psychoanalytical techniques such as dreams and art therapy can be of great help too.


  22. 22 kingsley April 17, 2009 at 19:51

    Perhaps the South Node and Lilith could be someone who becomes a therapist Eva. I would look at what the North Node holds first. Its good to have an sense of what one can move towards firstly. Without a wish – goal – decision, one will tend to stay at the South Node.


  23. 23 Eva April 17, 2009 at 21:27

    Yeah…been there done that a lot, without goals, or to many things…as Mars Gemini gave me curiousity of the many things in life, earlier touched a lot, now focusing more. But still looking for my inner direction, as I do have a quick and curious mind, now has to find a certain goal to put my energy towards and deepening. Its all about choices life…and its so fun to meet those sides of self, in groups intervening instead of whining 🙂 Anyhow, I have a great groupleader, Saturn holds his (12th h) Asc on one side and the other side of Asc is held by Jupiter(1st h) his Lilith is an interesting place to look, cause his Lilith is at my Vesta, and my Lilith is at his Venus. Ive learnt a lot from his body-mind-relating experincebased (and some of his exercises comes from W.Reich) deep meeting together with others in groups. Thanks so very much for all your profound answers, at my newly awakend interest, of the spot for inner growth and healing this can be. Sun-NNode-Mercury 3th h,goal then! 😉
    Transiting Sun was at my Lilith, when starting talking with you!

  24. 24 Eva April 17, 2009 at 21:59

    …and my good teacher use to say…all is about breathing movement and direction-focusing… and I agree 😉

  25. 25 elleN March 10, 2013 at 11:21

    I know this is an old thread but please help me…

    Black moon in 11 house/ Aquarius –
    I have had a report done that says I have a prominent black moon.
    – sextile ascendant
    – square pluto
    – square saturn
    – sextile moon
    – square mars

    Can anyone give me more info on this? How does this play out.. Im new at this.

  26. 26 kingsley July 9, 2013 at 13:53

    Hello eLLeN, it really depend on the closeness of these aspects. You will be affected mainly by the Squares Mars and Pluto however only if they have an aspect orb of less than three or four degrees. The tighter the orb, the more complex Lilith might work with these planets.

    I usually only work with conjunctions or close oppositions however the complexity that Lilith brings for these squares suggests destructive and unconscious actions which work to be powerful or be controlled in life.

    I dont know where your moon is or anything else that would help me To explore the ways Black Moon Lilith might operate, unfortunately.


  1. 1 Lilith Edits « Astrology by Kingsley Trackback on August 8, 2009 at 16:02
  2. 2 Lilith Edits » » Astrology Around The Web Trackback on August 8, 2009 at 18:16

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