Posts Tagged 'Black Moon Lilith'

The Planets and Black Moon Lilith



Black Moon Lilith


Black Moon Lilith is a mysterious Astrological point which is not easy to put ones finger on. The Astronomy in simplistic terms, the BML is the Moons furthest point in its orbit around earth. The Moons orbit is elliptical and therefore its path around the Earth each month has two distinct points. One point in the orbit is the closest distance to earth, called the Perigee and the furthest point in the orbit, called the Apogee. It is important that one works with the True and oscillating Lilith point rather than the “mean Lilith” calculation to achieve an accurate representation of any aspects to other planets.

The Astrological and psychological descriptive meanings of Black Moon Lilith can refer to various cultural mythologies pertaining to somewhat darker references of life. Some myths describe how there is a crisis during the creative beginnings of life on Earth in the Garden of Eden. Apparently Adam’s first wife was Lilith and that didn’t go very well.

In essence however the Black Moon Lilith point describes a part of personality that is not only outside of one’s awareness but buried deep in the subconscious realms of the psyche. Like Adam and Lilith in the creative beginnings, there are signs that Lilith has her place in early developmental life. Although “Lilith” in personality is described as repressed, “she” becomes overtly active in thoughts, feelings and behaviours.

The Planetary aspects to Black Moon Lilith are strongest when Conjunctions within a few degrees are noted. Each planet connected to Lilith will have both creative and destructive descriptions which mainly relate to personality and behaviours. Perhaps the following very brief outlines of Lilith and the Planets will be a starting point for the “discovery of the dark”?


Moon Lilith         Dysfunctional emotional expression and highly intuitive sensing skills

Sun Lilith             Inconsistency of Identity, authoritative inflexible and dependable characters

Mercury Lilith    Blocks to processing facts and figures, highly creative minds and comedians

Venus Lilith        Possessiveness and attachment dysfunction, creative use of relationships

Mars Lilith         Unstable high energy patterns, control, assertive and direct confrontational

Jupiter Lilith      Boundary concerns, prejudices and motivation to creative teaching methods

Saturn Lilith       Abusive captive syndromes, rigid authority, carers for aged and disabled

Uranus Lilith      Unbound psychic impulses, “crazy”, creative anarchy and inflexible individualism

Neptune Lilith   Lost, Schizoid types, de realisations, depersonalisations,  victims and impressionists creative abstractions.

Pluto Lilith     Drama and Intensity, destructive obsessiveness, control and intrinsic understanding of others psyche

Chapters even books could be written about each combination above. All descriptions involve boundary issues, psychological projections, dissociations, sexualisations, denials and extremely creative expressions and potentials of Lilith in personality, when a planet is in close aspect to Black Moon Lilith.

The conjunctions of Lilith to the Angles in the chart also imbue personality and the Natal expression.


Matriachal Lilith

First Posted 9 May 2009

A prominent Black Moon Lilith in the natal chart is either having a conjunction to another planet or an angular Lilith. Having a prominent Black Moon Lilith in the natal chart usually means an intense personality expressed via a strong character. Prominent Liliths are developed in personality from a young age and can sometimes indicate early developmental disruptions within our nurturing environment. The development of personality according to Developmental Psychology occurs largely between birth and seven years of age. In many cases – the Black Moon Lilith part of personality relates to a much younger inner self.


How can a child be Lilithy?

A strongly placed astrological Lilith can manifest in personality through different ways. The Object Constancy (Mahler) developmental stage for example – is where the young toddler rips one of her dolls apart while she meticulously cares for another doll. The child is expressing the good and less than good aspects of her early nurturing experiences. This behaviour is quite healthy and over time the infant integrates these black and white psychological challenges into personality. Sometimes this kind of differentiation is not completed in the development of personality and the person develops a strong character expression in order to compensate.


Perhaps developmental Lilith emerges during this early “Constancy” stage more so than any other stage of development.

When the infant cannot resolve the psychological conflict between their “good and less than good nurturing” the psyche becomes somewhat inflexible. The child can develop an impasse where life is either all rotten or all wonderful. There can be few grey areas within such black and white beliefs. Sibling rivalry and jealousy issues can also be a product of this early stage in life.

When the child endures traumatic experiences – survival can depend on the part of personality which “takes charge” of the psyche. Enter the “prominent Lilith” and the Black Moon part of personality.

In essence during such a developmental crisis there is a part of personality that splits away from the impasse in order to survive. The split off part of personality remains functional albeit hidden from the persons awareness. Invariably this part of personality can have a “louder voice” than the black and white impasse dynamic. It may also reflect the “bad” nurturing object for the child, however not in all cases. Black Moon Lilith is not all “black” in my view. She is a highly creative energy albeit, confusing.

So the young child can take on aspects of mothers or grand mothers inflexible parenting style within the psyche. Have you ever heard a four year child old utter reprimands and ultimatums like a bossy parent does? The child is mimicking his or her own experience of that restrictive parent voice. The formation of Lilith is via this kind of verbal transference however Lilith seems to form in personality during the non verbal stages of development too.

In the normal transference process in personality development, aspects of our role models personality are injuncted and introjected as parts of our own personality. The Black Moon Lilith or split off part remains remotely connected however separate to these introjected parts. Lilith emerges in personality expression unconsciously – as counter transference to this system. “She” may take the form of the very prejudiced parent that abused her. She may take on an inflexible form – resistant to anything remotely sounding like grandmas authority. Lilith is a wild fire kind of aspect in personality she takes control of chaos in a manner which is contrary to the rest of the psyche.

When Saturn is conjunct Lilith in the natal chart, the “baby” Lilith within – the infant or adolescent can sound very much like the matriarchal Lilith.


Angry Granny

Someone must keep order in the chaos

Saturn represents the authoritative and controlling part of personality. The firm parent or prejudiced parent become a part of the  intra psychic dynamics. Saturn allows a framework for managing ones inner psychic structures in relation to the environment. Saturn is not always such a bleak part of personality however when Saturn and Lilith are together in the chart ones unconscious and “darker” sides can develop a mean Matriarchal streak.

Saturn and Lilith seek out ways to have control. The matriarch requires her young charges to experience her own sense of authority. In real life the Saturn-Lilith person can be a carer of disabled or aged people. The Saturn Lilith person may need to form a dependant relationship with a victim like person. One must appreciate that Saturn/Lilith is not wholly the carer in relationships however an abuser within that relationship too.

The Saturn Lilith can provide a form of structure and chaos.

1. Internal self psychological structure in the case of the early impasse – the persons un integrated developmental issues are kept in check by via Lilith and Saturn’s authority over internal and external systems. The person wears themselves out daily by organising and being in control. The person can develop prejudiced beliefs and blames others for problems.

2. Counter Transference in relationships where – even though a person is the carer and in charge of another persons chaos, the Saturn Lilith part of the carer’s personality is potentially abusive. The Matriarch becomes frustrated and angry enough to find corrupt outlets to express a darker self. Here the unresolved impasse during the object constancy stage is unleashed.

The Matriarchal Lilith can be a complicated process of maintaining dignity in contrast to an abusive counter transference process.


The Saturn – Lilith type of abuser encompasses a captive style of relationship. After abusing the dependant person in a surreptitious manner the Saturn Lilith person will then do something nice for the abused person. The dependant person rationalizes the abusers behaviour for their own survival needs. With a similar profile as the Stockholm Syndrome the Saturn Lilith person needs to have a captive or dependant person to manage and express their deeply embedded psychological impasse from earlier in life.

Some Saturn Lilith People

Kevin Costner                                                        Cecil Beaton

Neil Diamond                                                         Bruce Lee

Chris Evert                                                              Gregory Peck

Dean Martin                                                            Steve Earle

Salvador Dali

Interesting enough the South Australian – Royal Automobile Association shows Saturn/Lilith at the Mid heaven. (Data by Solar Fire) The RAA operates a service to help stranded motorists who have broken down. In this case it seems that Saturn and Lilith plays an intrinsic role in their public service.



Conversation With Lilith – resumed

While revisiting some Lilith themes I thought of a blog title “Conversations With Lilith”. It would be interesting to dial-up Lilith and have an interview of sorts. Well I dropped the title idea when I found a blog with the same name. The blog Conversations with Lilith blog is worth checking out.

Inner conversations between Self and Black Moon Lilith are perhaps difficult things to do.  Black Moon Lilith in personality separates herself from potential psychic energy and resides somewhere in the sub conscious realms. Communicating with her is across parallel worlds and with limited connectivity.

When Astrological Lilith is prominent in the chart such as conjunct an angle or planet there is emphasis of a particular process in personality. Lilith is a kind of “sub personality” and is very difficult to recognise compared to other personality traits. Other people may see the Lilith part of personality being expressed however to the untrained eye Lilith remains difficult to recognise.  In some respects Lilith is similar to the descriptions of a strong Pluto placement in the chart. Pluto can describe unconscious projections and personality traits which evoke areas for personal growth. Pluto has a hand in behaviours such as transference, blaming, controlling and denial. These are mostly observable behaviours which are tangible compared to Black Moon Lilith.

It is however possible for a self-reflective or an evolved personality to identify Lilith phenomenologically. (as she happens)


Shadow movement

Lilith represents incongruous elements within personality which can either be creative or destructive. For the Lilith prominent person there are times where expressing emotions  spontaneously results in awkward social repercussions. The “Lilithy” person over time may attempt to repress parts of personality as to avoid misunderstandings and conflict in relationships. Lilith however emerges all on her own and contrary to ones impulse controls. “She” becomes visible in personality when there are challenges and emotions that the psyche doesnt know how to deal with. It is possible that she leaves a trail destruction in relationships and other settings.

The passive aggressive personality may offer some support to the Lilith personality theory. If you have ever been involved with a passive aggressive person then you will know that they can be ever so sweet and reasonable in their communication however they are also aggressive in their relationships. The passive aggressive personality is also difficult to recognise until you are familiar with that kind of behaviour.

One can walk away from the passive aggressive person feeling a twinge between their shoulder blades without knowing how a knife became lodged in their back. In some cases the passive aggressive person attempts to wear a person down so that other person feels angry and confused. The passive aggressive person seems sweet however behaves aggressively in surreptitious ways. They want to express their ability to have importance and power however underneath there are vulnerabilities.


A Well Known Passive Aggressive Duck

Some Lilith positions in the chart do not allow for much self reflection or perhaps there are other planetary aspects describing denials in personality which limit the awareness of  lilith manifestations.

Here are some fictitious examples of Black Moon Lilith can “look” like.

A young man out for dinner in the city one night returns later to find his car stolen. In the shock of the moment he calls his Mother to explain his loss. The Mother could reply with a nurturing comment however she says “why does this always happen to you”? Lilith emerges in the place of a more reasonable or nurturing response by the mother. The young man is confused and feels rejected.

A man with a rasping and angry tone to his voice looks lovingly at his girlfriend and says “do you think I can really change who I am”? His face grows an enormous smile as Lilith resonates with his stubborn statement and “cursed” sense of  reality. Lilith loves to be stuck in the psyche somewhere and the “gallows smile” is Lilith protruding into personality.

A man goes to coffee with a female friend who is married; they both know where they stand within the bounds of their platonic relationship. The woman however goes out of her way to dress provocatively which is far from her usual style. The woman bends over in front of the man showing portions of her curvy behind. The rest of the conversation tends to be about her. The man wants to tells her she is beautiful but she will not respond anyway. The game of Rapo is indeed Lilith emerging into personality as the temptress. Sexualizing interactions and gaining the upper hand is another way Lilith establishes herself in relationships.



A man has left his partner of a few years and wishes to return to the house to pick up his furniture. The ex partner has already got a new boyfriend and she has restricted the man from gaining access to his furniture. The man finally gets to shift his furniture but not before the ex partner approaches him alone with intensity. Does she wants to have sex with the man? Lilith finds difficulty in letting go of some relationships. Later the man realises that she hid an expensive item which was left. Perhaps this is a  wild-fire kind of Lilith where hanging on to a “piece of the man” is typical of the borderline personality.



A Man was talking to his elderly Mother about getting old. The Mother is secretly angry at the lack of attention by her son. The mother says to the son out of the blue “there wont be much money left, I am spending your inheritance here and there.” The son identifies Lilith and hugs his mother saying “I hope you spend it nicely mum”. The mother almost backs away, the man leaves and she is left with herself once again. Not taking on someones elses Lilith is a very good option.

A person comes to an important meeting and sits in front of another person with crotch directed at the other person. The tight jeans seemingly pushed forward in the chair trying to take the focus off that person and on the crotch area. The person realises the crotch pushing person needs some control in the meeting. If I was to talk to Lilith herself – it would mean talking to the crotch.


Body Language Speaks

A person writes an interesting blog describing certain human social traits however the writer knows a specific person who reads the blog will secretly identify the blog is about them. The facts contained in the blog are perhaps well known about the other person and the writer makes attempts to challenge or help the person reading it. Meanwhile no one else has a clue to what is going on and the person reading has little or no way of responding directly.

Man is having trouble with power ratio in his relationship. The woman says “put $100, 000 on the table now, we can continue with the relationship”. Man says “if I do that today, I am sure you will come up with another problem that I need to fix”. Perhaps the woman will say that the man must lose the hair on his chest to continue the relationship? Man gets too cheeky with the woman’s Lilith and the downward spiralling of the relationship continues.

Here is Lilith in Video form. Germaine Greer has Lilith and Vesta in the 1st House. #Unfortunately this very good video example of Lilith has been made private. For those of you who saw it the first time I am sure you will agree.


Black Moon Lilith has many ways of revealing ‘herself’ and perhaps the sexualized ones are more obvious. The sexual impulse by itself is an interesting parallel in that sexual feelings have a way of emerging all on their own and tend compel the person to act incongruously.

Passive Aggressive behaviours are also typical of Black Moon Lilith because there is a way to wreak a havoc towards another person while gaining a sense of power and control in the process. The aim of staying socially acceptable and maintaining the status quo while Lilith expresses herself is a difficult one. Lilith in personality begs to be understood however often she is shunned and consequently turns inwards. The person is left to mop up and in some cases feels angry with their actions because there is work to mend valuable relationships. These are the conundrums of trying to identify Lilith in personality.



Lilith and Medusa

Funkstar has brought up an interesting question regarding Medusa and Lilith.

Funkstar wrote in the comments

“A lot of the mythology for astrology comes from the ancient Greeks but as far as I know they did not mention Lilith. I was thinking that Hekate may be similar, or even Medusa. Do you think it is correct to associate Lilith with the fixed star Algol”?

That is a very good question Funkstar – one which helps us to explore the Lilith archetype further. There does seem to be similar mythological stories and archetypes across the different cultures.

According to Janus Astrology information Algol ….

“is a name derived from Arabic “Al Ghoul” meaning “demon”, “evil spirit” or “devil”. The word “alcohol” can also be traced to Al Ghoul. Nature of Mars and Saturn.”

A very good article by Nick Kollerstrom on Medusa can be found here.

I can understand how there may have been a “cross over” in the archetypes of both Lilith and Algol. They are both very similar kinds of energy – but they are not the same in my view. Perhaps one of the archetypes can be a function of the other and in this way the archetype becomes complex and sound similar?


Don’t Look at Medusa

Different cultures and races have their own sets of archetypal stories. It was interesting that Jung explored how two completely remote communities or cultures seemed to come up with the same mythological stories.

Recently I have put on my Picassa page an article by Psychologist Tony White on “The Demon Sub Personality” The very good article seems to reflect the same kinds of Black Moon Lilith phenomenon. (please press the above link then “slideshow” and full screen for best viewing). Tony White describes case studies and explores the “Demon”. He  quotes Berne below who refers to Freud about the “Demon” introject;


I am not sure whether the original writer Eric Berne (he is Jewish) has “accidentally” modernised aspects of the Lilith and Medusa stories? Berne’s social psychiatry work involves archetypal stories about ones Life Script. Tony White’s excellent phenomenological approach to the “Demon Sub Personality” does reflect Black Moon Lilith as I have understood her. His clinical observations and client testimonies about the Demon are worth reading.

ERICBERNE555Eric Berne

Eric Berne a psychiatrist describes the psychological game of Rapo where a woman uses her charms to get closer to a male admirer. In the end she says to the man that she is married and then laughs. She “gets off” on being flirty and then destructive. The man kind of turns to stone like in the Medusa story. The woman seems to get control over the “male energy” which is also a Lilith – like behaviour.

In the Medusa story the outcome relates to how Perseus overcomes such a “demon”.  I believe that Medusa’s head symbolizes  all that there is to fear and the courage one needs to win through fear. One must meet with a formidable force by risking any challenge with Medusa .

Perhaps in the story of Medusa it ended well for Perseus however there were many before him who turned to stone. The Lilith archetype does not seem to have such an ending and “her” deepest pain,  jealousy, passion and sense for revenge continues.


Flirting requires two to play – maybe the bar tender is the woman’s husband?

The archetype in the fixed star of Algol (Medusa) perhaps describes a particular “game” or psychological process that “Lilith” is capable of. That is – the Medusa archetype describes one potential of Lilith’s behaviour.  Sometimes I have to remind myself  how the Lilith archetype and Black Moon Lilith are working on different levels in the psyche.

So maybe there is a link between Lilith and Medusa Funkstar? –  Good question and point to make. In my mind Black Moon Lilith and Medusa are complimentary and that is why BML – the empty focus Moon can be so complex.

All roads lead to Rome Funkstar especially where understanding Black Moon Lilith is concerned.



Black Moon Crown

Usually the most elevated planet in the natal chart depicts an influence over career and public status. Any planet near the Mid Heaven or in the Tenth House has an emphasis in the persons public life. Venus at the mid heaven suggests creative influences of an artist or actor whereas Mars at the mid heaven indicates pro active leadership qualities. Black Moon Lilith is a calculated point however it seems to have an influence when “crowned” at the mid heaven.

crown_1_lg Famous or Infamous

The mid heaven draws various influences out into the open where we can all see. Lilith is a difficult energy which can be an unconscious part of our personality or expression.  Channelling Black Moon Lilith energy into ones career or public life means becoming aware of Lilith’s potential rather than allowing a more self destructive energy.

Vincent Price is a famous actor known for his horror movies. Vincent has Black Moon Lilith at the mid heaven of his natal chart.


JS9705Vincent shows a certain intensity in his PR shots



Vincent Price is not only famous for his horror movies but his “voice overs” with both Alice Cooper and Michael Jackson.

Taurus has rulership of the throat and voice in astrology. Vincent’s chart shows Moon and Saturn in Taurus opposite Jupiter. Perhaps the opposition aspect emphasises Vincent’s powerful and intense vocal skills? In my mind however, Vincent has a distinct Lilith tone in his voice. I couldn’t upload the sound file so please go here for an except.


River Phoenix has Black Moon Lilith on the Mid heaven

Born 23 August 1970, 12 03 pm Madras, Oregon. River Phoenix seems to have had troubled developmental years.  This reference on Wikipeida;

“In an interview with Details magazine in November 1991, Phoenix stated that he lost his virginity at age four while a part of the Children of God. The magazine quotes him as saying “But I’ve blocked it out… I was completely celibate from 10 to 14”. His representatives reportedly pressured him to later recant the comment, claiming it was “a joke”. In March 1994, Esquire magazine quoted River as speaking angrily of the cult: “They’re disgusting… they’re ruining people’s lives”. After the family left the cult and returned to the United States in 1977, they officially adopted the surname “Phoenix” on April 2, 1979 to reflect their rebirth to a new life.” end quote


Some time before River Phoenix untimely death he was quoted as saying

“For a long time, I’ve said the opposite of what I really thought. In interviews, I’ve also played characters that I wasn’t. I’ve lied and often contradicted myself to dumbfound people. It’s all over now, because I have nothing left to hide. I’m quite an ordinary person.”

Perhaps this is true about River Phoenix and that he was being truthful when he said “I am quite an ordinary person”? In my view his chart seems to contradict this statement. Perhaps the crowning Black Moon Lilith doesn’t allow such an ordinary life? One learns how to channel Lilith energy productively or to at least understand ones limitations in the self destructive process.

Phoenix has Jupiter in Scorpio – close to the natal ascendant. At the time of his overdose and death in October 1993 – progressed Jupiter hit the ascendant while he was also having a Jupiter return. Jupiter is the planet of excess and abundance.

Other well known people with Black Moon Lilith at the Mid Heaven or tenth house are;

John Derek

Jodie Foster

Steve Irwin

Drew Barrymore

Sam Cooke

Matt Dillon

George Harrison

Audrey Hepburn

Rock Hudson

Chaka Khan

Shirley MacLaine

Wolfgang Mozart

Dianna Ross

Kyle Minogue

Aaron Spelling



Black Moon Lilithium

Black Moon Lilith found in strong chart positions can show a person with intensity and charisma. Black Moon Lilith is not really about ones outwardly persona however a much deeper and strangely attractive quality. One could say that L Ron Hubbard, the founder of the Church of Scientology has a certain charismatic appeal.

Ron Hubbard’s chart shows his Moon in the ninth house of religion with contacts to both Saturn and Chiron. The Moon trine Saturn is about conforming and being strong in the light of another threatening sense of abandonment. Ron’s upbringing has led him into experiences where showing little emotion is the best way to go. His moon is opposite Chiron which tends to suggest boundary issues and the inability to express his natural feeling world. With Black Moon on the ascendant Ron Hubbards charismatic appeal lures others closer where he can then establish attachments and begin his teaching and preaching.

The Black Moon is mesmerizing perhaps, like a woman with great sex appeal in front of a male audience. The darker side of Lilith emits a strong transference that others identify in their own unique manner. Neptune on the ascendant for a person works in a similar manner where projective identification lures others into a false sense of love for the person. The person idealizes, sees what they want to see in the person. The Lilithium at the ascendant captivates the other, by way of a familiar memory,  of knowing the person more intimately than any real first introductions allow.

Unfortunately the Islamic magistrates in Schapelle Corby’s drug smuggling case did not allure to her feminine charms.

Once again the chart shows a sensitive area around normal lunar expression of personality. Moon Chiron contact can restrict and add a sense of fear to a normal feeling responses. Schapelle did cry and appear to have emotions during her court hearings however in my view it takes these intense experiences for the a Moon Chiron person to actually have normal feelings. Venus the chart ruler in Shapelle Corby’s case is conjunct Black Moon Lilith. She was a model and a beauty therapist before being caught as a drug runner. Venus and Black Moon Lilith is a relational charismatic appeal which Corby used with her lawyers and the Australian Population. Her voluptuous nature and strange sense of appeal has made her a house hold name, thanks to all the news items.

A woman who worked as a sport massage therapist when I first met her, claimed that she was in the German cycling team earlier in her life. This woman loved to show her extraordinary body off at night clubs. Men would stop in their tracks with their jaws dropping instantly, loving her for her body. There was no doubt her sex appeal was captivating, however there was much more going on.

I thought this woman was quite depressed when I first met her. A few years after our meeting I saw her at a party. She appeared as though she lived in a gym or at least her body size seemed to have doubled in the proportions that I remembered. I thought she was on steroids, yet she was still beautifully proportioned like an “Olympian” goddess. The people close to me said that whenever she goes into a restaurant the whole place goes quiet and mens eyes are all focused in her direction.

She is the ultimate temptress with a an added extra, in Vesta. Both Vesta and Black Moon Lilith at the ascendant make a formidable combination of self beauty (narcissism) and charismatic appeal. Much like Warren Beatty’s sex appeal with women. She indeed loves herself and is setting out to lure the world to look and love her too. Of course, the Moon trine Venus, trine Vesta/BML in her chart is a gift of the gods especially for the feminine. Apparently as the gossip goes, her sexual prowess is only limited by the trail of men unable to keep up with her. I think the Lilithium in her case, is that she loved to be objectified as a woman.

An interesting technique in my opinion is stripping the chart down to basic chart functions and then adding the other chart points in order of one’s natural responses to the initial chart function. In that way one can identify coping mechanisms and reactive expressions in personality. Here is the basic chart function in a chart.

I wonder how many astrologers would say “Eewww” after seeing this chart dynamic? The Moon is at the “bends” (square nodes), besieged by Chiron and Black Moon Lilith. I allowed the opposite aspect of Moon and Pluto to show because some astrologers would say the aspect is in orb (in range of operation). When lunar expression is limited, the psyche will find other means of survival. The transformational qualities involved for this kind of limited lunar expression shown above, has a great deal to do with the person finding other ways to express themselves.

A person would truly be administered with medications such as Lithium if one’s natural expression (lunar) did not function in some way. The Moon is the free child (natural expression in personality) and of course the moon represents the mother. In the development of personality the mother plays an important role in the above configuration and the chart similarly shows a defensive structure or survival pattern. The astrology of the Moon describes the condition of the parent and therefore the quality of her personality as experienced by the owner of the chart. The mother can transfer positive and negative qualities of her traits to her children by what is known as transference.

In Transactional Analysis, the phenomenon of parents transferring (getting rid of) their own life script patterns onto their children is colloquially known as “The Hot Potato”by Fanita English.

One could say that I have some of my Mothers Lilithium in me and that I can magically take on her issues so that she doesn’t have to deal with them. She can banish them from her experience temporarily if I choose to take them on. I must say that in some cases this still applies in my relationship with my mother although I am more aware of the process now. The Black Moon Lilith in my case is perhaps the demonic self expression in times when lunar or other natural expressions are limited.

Although these functions in the chart may take years to understand and integrate in ones personality the result in my case has been a career of psychotherapy. When working with anger it is helpful if the counsellor has intimately dealt with their own anger. When dealing with a client’s limited natural expression and their “Lilith” in personality it seems potentially useful to have an intimate understanding of ones own Lilith.

The transference factor involved with Lilith is varied in its actual direction in the psyche. Lilith can be projected outwardly or introjected (inwardly) in personality. It is a powerful and intense energy that others intuitively sense in the “Lilith prominent” person.

In relationships Lilith can allure and attract the wrong people for the right relational learning experiences.


Counter Transference and Lilith

Conversations with Lilith


Counter-Transference and Lilith Reworked

Going back over old blog posts I am sometimes surprised by my inadequate writing skills. I could say now that my writing skills have improved over the last two years. I am not a born writer however the passion for expressing myself through Astrology is a motivation I cannot ignore. I am somewhat rebellious to the dyslexia that makes writing difficult. I have re written this blog because I could hardly understand it myself. Not that Lilith is an easy subject to understand.

Transference is described in psychology as the unconscious redirection of emotional issues from one person to another. Both positive and negative transference stems in part from our early relationships to parents. Transference is usually escalates during breakdowns in adult relationships and often relates to unmet childhood needs. We tend to “paste” these same unresolved issues with our parents onto the face of other people.

With the goal of making transitions and redecisons about unresolved issues interfering with the quality of life, Psychotherapy can help untangle and bring awareness to these transferences.




School Teachers tend to be less trained in handling transference issues and unwittingly step into the line of fire by becoming entangled with students authoritative transference. As a result teachers are prone to reacting by way of Counter-Transference. Emotionally reacting to younger students is stepping into the transference and often a teacher will sound like a parent. Children push and push until they get the reaction they want from parents or teachers.



Transference exists in the midst of relationships

Counter Transference in therapy is the Therapists own feelings and reactions during the course of the session. The process of Counter Transference is used by psychotherapists to understand elements of unconscious communication in their relationships with clients. The therapist is trained to listen to their internal “child”‘ feelings and process them in a way to facilitate treatment interventions. The experienced counsellor can respond seamlessly for good therapeutic intervention.

Usually when a therapist works with transferential therapies supervision and personal therapy become a normal part of their working lives.

If counter-transference or unconscious responses emerge from the therapists own “child issues” then it makes sense for the therapist to explore Lilith (Black Moon Lilith) in their own astrology chart.

Lilith has been described by various authors and can initially be confusing because there are three different Astrological Lilith’s. In this case I refer to the Black Moon Lilith. The Black Moon Lilith is the “empty focus” moon and describes hidden and incongruous parts of personality. Seeing as though I have Black Moon Lilith and Chiron either side (conjunct) of my natal Moon perhaps I may have some helpful insights into Counter-transference and Black Moon Lilith.

Firstly let me say that counter-transference is not a “dirty word” or a negative issue for the counsellor or astrologer. Many new counsellors tend to view counter-transference as erroneous however as long as one has awareness of counter-transference feelings much can be gained personally. The trick seems to be promoting ones inner reflective process. That is to be open to ones blind spots in personality.

Finding ways to identify and to express Lilith can help with complex personal transitions. In some psychoanalytical fields such as in Relational Therapy the word Reflexivity is used to describe the ability for self reflection.



One way in which counter-transference is used productively by counsellors is through self disclosure. To genuinely express their feelings and thoughts related to the client’s clinical work. Working in clinical settings requires understanding counter-transference and boundaries with relational interventions. The client gains from the therapeutic relationship by accessing unconscious thoughts or behaviours that were previously denied.

Both therapist and client can make some means of transformation within their relational transference. So how does one identify their counter-transference through Astrology?

The planets in houses that involve relationships such as the 1st and 7th houses are important places where transference can be identified. One may apply the principle of transference to the placement of the rulers of these houses in the natal chart. The Moons nodal degrees are also points which locates transference in the natal chart. The ruler of the south node in the chart will describe ones early childhood patterning. Basically all of the planets are open to transference however the Moon, Sun and Saturn points are primary indicators.



Adversarial Transference

If you have the Ascendant ruler in the 7th house for example, the person will tend to express themselves outwardly using others as a sound board. Reflexivity is the process of understanding “ping backs” from others when identifying ones own thinking, feeling or behaviour. When the 7th house ruler is in the 1st house others are drawn towards you with either positive or negative transference. Saturn emphasised in the chart this way tends to show authoritative transference. The ruling planet of any house in the chart found in the 1st house will show transference from that house.

Mars the ruler of my 7th house in the my 1st house so I tend to attract competitive transference and sometimes conflict. Often I hardly need to open my mouth and others want to challenge me. I am well experienced in these types of relationships and as a result became trained in Mediation and Anger Therapy.

Mars in the first house also describes my assertive personality and emotional reactions attached to counter-transference feelings.  If  I take notice of my inner emotional response to a client then I can then understand more about the client. Without reacting I can then “track” the client in therapy so they can deal with their own anger issues.

In my experience the most vulnerable aspect or function in the astrology chart will show the source of counter-transference feelings. In my case it would be the Moon and Chiron.



Black Moon Lilith Symbol

If you find Black Moon Lilith in the natal chart the usual sign and house descriptions may apply although it’s really just a guide. Aspects to Lilith such as conjunctions opposites or squares will describe Lilith in more detail. One can attempt to identify and connect to their behaviours and expressions by following the descriptions of Lilith in the chart.

One can also identify transits and progressions to natal Lilith and the other planets involved to calculate important Lilith events.

It is a good idea to first prove the ability for reflexivity in the natal chart. The usual third house analysis and Moon – Mercury – Ascendant connections will hint towards an ability for self reflection. The Modalities in the natal chart such Fixed, Mutable or Cardinal energies will also help to show the persons temperaments and reflexivity potentials.

The aim of “becoming aware” in counselling is to emerge from a kind of  “self awareness crises” in a good space with valuable transformative material.

My Lilith is in Aquarius which is fixed but intellectually orientated. I think about my feelings and can detach from feelings too (moon in Aquarius). With the help of a mutual reception between Mercury and Mars my reflexive process is quite good however it takes some time for me to discover things that I am unaware of. I have an abundance of Fire element and my chart modalities balanced.

People with Lilith conjunct angles or luminaries will have intensity of Lilith functions. These people may find it helpful to reflect on their interactions carefully and find creative ways to express Lilith in personality. Strong Lilith placements in the chart relate to people with charismatic and creative personalities.

Learning to integrate Lilith is not an easy process and requires practicing reflexivity techniques within ones relationships. Practicing ones “genuiness” can be done carefully as to not expose too vulnerable feelings afterwards. It is through this “giving and receiving” process in relationships where valuable transitions can be made using dynamic transference.

The integration and transcendence from ones early unmet needs occurs by first becoming aware of unconscious thoughts and feelings. Lilith represents complex transference issues in personality which can be expressed unconsciously in adult relationships.

Lilith seems to do her “worst work” when she is denied and repressed in personality. Identifying and then giving Lilith some freedom to express “herself ” feels a bit risky at first however with small steps that kind of permission can be very rewarding.

First posted 2008;  Re edited Feb 2010



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