Lilith and Medusa

Funkstar has brought up an interesting question regarding Medusa and Lilith.

Funkstar wrote in the comments

“A lot of the mythology for astrology comes from the ancient Greeks but as far as I know they did not mention Lilith. I was thinking that Hekate may be similar, or even Medusa. Do you think it is correct to associate Lilith with the fixed star Algol”?

That is a very good question Funkstar – one which helps us to explore the Lilith archetype further. There does seem to be similar mythological stories and archetypes across the different cultures.

According to Janus Astrology information Algol ….

“is a name derived from Arabic “Al Ghoul” meaning “demon”, “evil spirit” or “devil”. The word “alcohol” can also be traced to Al Ghoul. Nature of Mars and Saturn.”

A very good article by Nick Kollerstrom on Medusa can be found here.

I can understand how there may have been a “cross over” in the archetypes of both Lilith and Algol. They are both very similar kinds of energy – but they are not the same in my view. Perhaps one of the archetypes can be a function of the other and in this way the archetype becomes complex and sound similar?

medusa

Don’t Look at Medusa

Different cultures and races have their own sets of archetypal stories. It was interesting that Jung explored how two completely remote communities or cultures seemed to come up with the same mythological stories.

Recently I have put on my Picassa page an article by Psychologist Tony White on “The Demon Sub Personality” The very good article seems to reflect the same kinds of Black Moon Lilith phenomenon. (please press the above link then “slideshow” and full screen for best viewing). Tony White describes case studies and explores the “Demon”. He  quotes Berne below who refers to Freud about the “Demon” introject;

Demon2a

I am not sure whether the original writer Eric Berne (he is Jewish) has “accidentally” modernised aspects of the Lilith and Medusa stories? Berne’s social psychiatry work involves archetypal stories about ones Life Script. Tony White’s excellent phenomenological approach to the “Demon Sub Personality” does reflect Black Moon Lilith as I have understood her. His clinical observations and client testimonies about the Demon are worth reading.

ERICBERNE555Eric Berne

Eric Berne a psychiatrist describes the psychological game of Rapo where a woman uses her charms to get closer to a male admirer. In the end she says to the man that she is married and then laughs. She “gets off” on being flirty and then destructive. The man kind of turns to stone like in the Medusa story. The woman seems to get control over the “male energy” which is also a Lilith – like behaviour.

In the Medusa story the outcome relates to how Perseus overcomes such a “demon”.  I believe that Medusa’s head symbolizes  all that there is to fear and the courage one needs to win through fear. One must meet with a formidable force by risking any challenge with Medusa .

Perhaps in the story of Medusa it ended well for Perseus however there were many before him who turned to stone. The Lilith archetype does not seem to have such an ending and “her” deepest pain,  jealousy, passion and sense for revenge continues.

flirting1b-main_Full

Flirting requires two to play – maybe the bar tender is the woman’s husband?

The archetype in the fixed star of Algol (Medusa) perhaps describes a particular “game” or psychological process that “Lilith” is capable of. That is – the Medusa archetype describes one potential of Lilith’s behaviour.  Sometimes I have to remind myself  how the Lilith archetype and Black Moon Lilith are working on different levels in the psyche.

So maybe there is a link between Lilith and Medusa Funkstar? –  Good question and point to make. In my mind Black Moon Lilith and Medusa are complimentary and that is why BML – the empty focus Moon can be so complex.

All roads lead to Rome Funkstar especially where understanding Black Moon Lilith is concerned.

Kingsley

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27 Responses to “Lilith and Medusa”


  1. 1 Graffiti August 18, 2009 at 17:40

    Very intersting Kingsley,

    It certainly was accidental for me as I knew nothing of lillith until recently when I spoke with you. When writing about the demon I knew nothing about it.

    Very interesting topic my friend

    Graffiti

  2. 2 kingsley August 19, 2009 at 08:44

    I guess that is my point about remote cultures arriving at the same human observations and or archetypes Grafitti. I think your paper was written in 1987 so your understandings about certain client behaviours was quite advanced in my view.

    cheers
    Kingsley

  3. 3 kingsley August 19, 2009 at 11:51

    The problem with associating the adventures of Perseus and Medusa to Black Moon Lilith is that if one attempted to “cut the head” off Lilith, the head would grow back in my view. One can repress lilith for only so long. One can use their authoritative and “militant control” to sequester Black Moom Lilith however its just not going to work.

    Its a good idea to establish a working relationship with Lilith. Its a good idea if you know a person with an emphasis of Lilith to make sense of their behaviours. Its reasonable to think that there is no sense to their behaviour. The Lilith person is lureing and looking to create a “rise” in others so that they may feel devlishly brilliant.

    They also seem to have a charismatic approach. Ones relationship to a lilith type person can turn into a buffetting. One could find themselves buried in a complex mire while Lilith skips and laughs. The Lilith person gets a kick out of leading you there and perhaps its their way of saying “see how its better that you are stuck rather than me”. Yes – Lilith types are very smart indeed.They can also be destructive.

    kingsley

  4. 4 Funkstar August 19, 2009 at 16:41

    Thanks for the intro there Kingsley. I like the philology there with the Arabic derivation. The word “Algos” is from the Greek άλγος “pain” – Algology being the study of pain.

    I’m still learning about the differences in the three Liliths and can’t help thinking of the similarities to the pagan Triple Goddess theme. Maiden, mother and crone deities such as the Greek Hekate and Moirae, or the Celtic Morgan le Fay of Arthurian legend. This runs through many cultures and is also central to modern Wicca as the Tripple Goddess.

  5. 5 kingsley August 19, 2009 at 19:09

    I like that Funkstar, “the study of pain” = Algology = Algol. The modern connotation of the word Ghoul describes someone who enjoys things of a macabre nature. It has a gothic theme dont you think?

    kingsley

  6. 6 Graffiti August 19, 2009 at 19:56

    Thanks for your comments Kingsley.
    I can remember when I first read what Eric Berne wrote on the demon and how it just sort of clicked for me with a couple of clients that I was working with at the time. I guess that was 1987.

    Graffiti

  7. 7 kingsley August 19, 2009 at 20:46

    Yes I remember buying your book with the article in it back in 1998. I was fascinated with the read and it affected me on some nieve level Grafitti.

    Writing and talking about Lilith is good. A few years ago when I read your article again I became interested in the similarities with Lilith. I probably started “clicking” about Lilith in a new light then. I could say that your article has made me curious and passionate about understanding the Black Moon and the Demon in personality.

    kingsley

  8. 8 kingsley August 20, 2009 at 09:50

    I wonder where Lilith might be in your chart Grafitti? Maybe it has some emphasis?

    k

  9. 9 witchcraft August 22, 2009 at 15:05

    Glad I came back to this site some new very interesting items which I wanted to know more about. Great work on your site.

  10. 10 Marina September 8, 2009 at 17:07

    Demetria George mentions Medusa and Hekate as all being aspects of Black Moon Lilith. Medusa out of all of them is more the raging feminist side of Lilith. For a male its like her raging stare castrates the man or renders him impotent. (Turning to stone, frozen in fear) For a women its like cutting yourself off from your dark and powerful sexuality (As Athena did, Medusas severed head became her shield.)
    I have been looking at the Astro of Sodini and the shooting. I had a feeling that impotence lay behind it so I looked up Medusa in his chart. It was conjunct his sun. There is a heavy Lilith theme in the whole shooting transits. Moon opposite asteriod Lilith in the sky. Here’s the Blog
    Sodini & Medusa

  11. 11 kingsley September 8, 2009 at 17:20

    Hello Marina, I havent read Demetra George however I concur that there are many aspects to Lilith in personality. Just like in the case of mental illness – a person may feel compelled to interplay their pathology in many different ways. They can be defenses to other unknowns.

    I will read the blog about Sodini, thank Marina.

    Kingsley

  12. 12 kingsley September 8, 2009 at 17:21

    ps Marina, where did you read or hear Demetra saying that about Lilith?

    k

  13. 13 Marina September 8, 2009 at 17:57

    I have her fantastic book. Mysteries of the Dark Moon. She has a small section on each of the Archetypes. One on Medusa and one on Lilith. Am half way thru it.

    I think BML is the goddess of Magic, Sex used for enlightenment rather than for procreation and all about being a free spirit. Before all these things were taken as a threat to Christainity when Lilith was warped. Medusa is very much the warped end.

  14. 14 kingsley September 9, 2009 at 08:10

    I agree with you about the enlightenment factor Marina. That is, if one is open to that kind of spiritual “evolvement”.

    They did have quite a following in the early days I believe.

    kingsley

  15. 15 goastrology July 16, 2010 at 21:35

    Medusa is fear. Fear of what you can’t control, fear of primal nature, of taking chaos into civilized society. In the myth Medusa was a young woman getting either raped or willingly loved by Poseidon, in the Temple of Athena, goddess of the civilized mind. Athena punished her and made her a monster. The myth continues with how Pegasus, the first Unicorn, was made out of her blood. To me, this is definitely a story about fear, hate, violence, redemption and innocence. a unicorn is purity, freedom and innocence, and it’s the offspring of Medusa and Poseidon. Medusa was actually misunderstood, a victim of hate and fear. She’s both the unicorn and the monster. a bit like the Madonna and the whore.

  16. 16 goastrology July 16, 2010 at 21:41

    / and if we really DO look fear (medusa) in the eyes, we will see the truth and desarm it. And we will see that it was _us_ that projected it onto the Medusa. And there is the unicorn.

  17. 17 goastrology July 16, 2010 at 22:09

    “The man kind of turns to stone like in the Medusa story. The woman seems to get control over the “male energy” which is also a Lilith – like behaviour.”
    uh huh but this depends on what perspective you use. The snakes represent uncontrollable female fertility energy just like the Priapus myth with male fertility. The snakes is the signum of the ancient female witchcraft moon goddesses (those in charge of female fertility) and the more female-oriented ancient tribes with strong emhpasis on female sexuality, before the patriarchal Greeks revolutionized (order in the house!) the old myths and made way for patriarchal Christianity, were female fertility was practically terminated and the Madonna was the only woman represented. Here we have Lilith! 🙂

  18. 19 rawmoon January 24, 2012 at 02:07

    Hi,
    This may be a bit too late, but the description of the Medusa-Lilith relationship is spot-on: I have my ascendant in 15 Leo (12 Leo Lilith in 12th house) and my moon in 26Taurus (in 10th house). It’s a constant struggle to speak or express these energies in normal society, it seems people cannot accept their dark side or have real pleasure or be able to laugh in the face of pain…

    • 20 kingsley January 24, 2012 at 08:39

      Never too late to comment Rawmoon. Thus leading to the feeling of being outcast or thinking “whats the point” in having relationships when one is misunderstood so often?

      I understand what you are saying Rawmoon, my ascendant is 27 Taurus and Moon 18 degree Aquarius conjunct Lilith. Being creative and exploring different outlets to express these energies is kind of a responsibility in life. Perhaps we are a “danger to society” or at least self destructive when that unbridled expression has no creative outlet? The energy must have a way of attracting the “right” kind of attention unless that is, one is wishing a more notorious reputation?

      k

      • 21 rawmoon January 25, 2012 at 00:41

        Oh my goodness… a kindred spirit! I feel outcast, often when it comes to communicating my feelings or events that befall in my daily life, you are quite right about that one… but I am still in a period of self-discovery in which relationships have been vital (progressed NN in 7th house Pisces? Or a more immature form in natal NN in 8th house?…)

        The focus on creative expression, at least for me, has been to beautify societal struggle through research and fiction (MC in Taurus 15 opposite Mars/Pluto in Scorpio 3rd house? Or its connection to Medusa?), specially magical realism. My thesis is about student strikes and violence… you get the picture;)

        “Perhaps we are a “danger to society” or at least self destructive when that unbridled expression has no creative outlet?” >> Oh, yes you are right (I’m almost in tears right now… don’t know if those are from joy or pain…). In my case it has been reflected as an inability to mourn things in my life in an open, “normal” way: I find that people get VERY nervous or confused whenever I cry or feel angry, to the point that I’ve accustomed myself to handle these things in private. I find solace in astrology, painting portraits, writing, poetry, and yet I don’t like to show them off…

        “The energy must have a way of attracting the “right” kind of attention unless that is, one is wishing a more notorious reputation?” >>> I’ve found that when I less seek attention, I most stand out in the crowd; as a woman, I do not exactly abide by “normal” or “submissive” feminine behavior or philosophy…

      • 22 kingsley January 26, 2012 at 00:16

        In some serious court cases, the accused sit looking detached, emotionless and viewed by media as guilty where really the person is not. Instead, their capacity to exist in such intense experiences is diminished. They are disconnected from the here and now, the scare is overwhelming and that alone could make them feel guilty of some crime or at least that they are “bad” just for being in such circumstances. Their body language looks guilty at the expense of not knowing any other way of coping the experience. The only crime they have committed is not representing themselves with emotional expression, a tear dripping, a forlorn look or anything that may satisfy what others think would be a normal response!

        One does well to enlist the creativeness of these archetypes while practicing ways to connect and express in ways that others can understand otherwise the isolation continues as does the anger towards a very big world.

        Anyway a woman called Lindy Chamberlain in australia went to jail because she looked guilty, because she didnt express her feelings like most other people. It’s worth finding ways to disconnect this seemingly “curse of life” and to create an expression that feels good.

        You are speaking up well and good here RawMoon
        K

  19. 23 rawmoon January 25, 2012 at 00:43

    If I try to stand out, I feel guilty.

  20. 24 rawmoon January 25, 2012 at 00:55

    “Medusa is fear. Fear of what you can’t control, fear of primal nature, of taking chaos into civilized society.” >>> It could be this, and yet for me it has been to handle the comprehension of how we could trigger it or avoid it. In my case, it’s like we can be in constant contact with collective fear, with collective pain and reflect it back in our own self-expression. It brings to mind Salvador Dali’s Guernica…

  21. 25 rawmoon January 25, 2012 at 21:10

    Oops, Picasso’s Guernica, sorry


  1. 1 Asteroid 149 – Medusa | Anasteroidsdatabase's Blog Trackback on July 5, 2010 at 11:00
  2. 2 Asteroid 149 Medusa Trackback on May 15, 2011 at 06:53

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